Author Topic: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve  (Read 10635 times)

Offline siodee

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Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« on: June 16, 2011, 07:48:14 AM »
I notice that seamaster and seadweller have the Helium Relief Valve, and curious about it, then come into this article

Quote
"The purpose and function of the helium relief valve is a common point of confusion. It has nothing to do with normal underwater diving. Neither does it have anything to do with the depth rating for a diving watch. Helium does NOT seep into the watch while the watch is in water at any depth!

To put it simply, you can completely ignore the helium relief valve. This feature is not used in any way with any form of normal SCUBA diving or anything else that involves less than a multi-million dollar deep sea exploration project."
end Quote

Although we have discussed this features at the GTG, but little bit confuse still  :Confused:
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
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Offline bigkahuna

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 08:53:18 AM »
Hi Siodee, I think the quote you found is not entirely accurate and contrary to what the quote said about helium not seeping into a watch at any depth is not consistent with what I’ve read. Perhaps the following taken from Wikipedia can help shed some light:

" A helium release valve, or helium escape valve, as it is also called, is a feature found on some diving watches. It provides functionality for professional divers operating at great depths for prolonged periods of time or under saturation. When commercial divers operate at great depths, they often spend prolonged hours in diving bells under pressure breathing a breathing gas mix like trimix or similar, that contain the gases helium or hydrogen. Since helium atoms are the smallest natural gas particles found in nature, these gas atoms are able to work their way inside the watch, around any o-rings or other seals the watch may feature. This is not a problem as long as the divers stay under pressure, but when the decompression stops during resurfacing aren't long enough, a pressure difference builds up between the trapped gas(es) inside the watch case and its environment. Depending on the construction of the watch case and crystal, this effect can cause damage to the watch, like making the crystal pop off."
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Offline Sid Vicious

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 09:01:47 AM »
Again reasons why i am annoyed I missed the gtg...if not, not only can i partake n this v interesting discussion but also hopefully cuba cuba the new DSSD with people who what it's all about  :Blue:

Thanks bigkahuna, makes sense to me  :Cheers:
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Offline chrisyen

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 09:27:18 AM »
Is gd to hv hobbit here  :thumbsup:

yeap, b4 this HEV invented, rolex n seiko hv their watch crystal broke when the divers resurface!!!

Offline Gigi

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 10:26:24 AM »
Is gd to hv hobbit here  :thumbsup:

yeap, b4 this HEV invented, rolex n seiko hv their watch crystal broke when the divers resurface!!!



i guess the later seiko and orient deep diver will not have this problem even with now escape value? Look at tuna and marinemaster auto 300.

Offline David_cheong

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 12:43:50 PM »
Bear in mind that the helium valve on omega are hand operated (unscrew knob crown) to release helium gases.

The HV on sd and deep sea is auto operated to a certain pressure to release gases by itself.

The HV comes into play only when the operator is in dry environment and in a ascending procedures....no?

dc
I am almost a recovered watchaholic, but last checked shows only 70% recovered. How?

Offline bigkahuna

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 01:24:36 PM »
Bear in mind that the helium valve on omega are hand operated (unscrew knob crown) to release helium gases.

The HV on sd and deep sea is auto operated to a certain pressure to release gases by itself.

The HV comes into play only when the operator is in dry environment and in a ascending procedures....no?

dc

ditto  :thumbsup: The valve should only be operated in a dry environment like in a divng bell or other deepsea type vessels unless you plan on getting a new watch  ;D
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Offline siodee

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 02:47:49 PM »
Is gd to hv hobbit here  :thumbsup:

yeap, b4 this HEV invented, rolex n seiko hv their watch crystal broke when the divers resurface!!!


Bro...Hobbit not here la, may be you got poison from him  :Laughing_on_floor:

Is gd to hv hobbit here  :thumbsup:

yeap, b4 this HEV invented, rolex n seiko hv their watch crystal broke when the divers resurface!!!



i guess the later seiko and orient deep diver will not have this problem even with now escape value? Look at tuna and marinemaster auto 300.

You have these 2 have the escape valve too??
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline Gigi

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 02:56:25 PM »
no but do look for 1000 tuna and spring drive diver. Both no hev too.

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 04:13:42 PM »
"The purpose and function of the helium relief valve is a common point of confusion. It has nothing to do with normal underwater diving. Neither does it have anything to do with the depth rating for a diving watch. Helium does NOT seep into the watch while the watch is in water at any depth!

To put it simply, you can completely ignore the helium relief valve. This feature is not used in any way with any form of normal SCUBA diving or anything else that involves less than a multi-million dollar deep sea exploration project."

This quote is not really accurate. It is true that Helium does NOT seep into the watch while the watch is in water at any depth. Helium gets in when the divers (deep water saturation divers) are in the bell. As explained by Omega:

'When carrying out work at great depths, professional divers stay in a diving bell for several days, breathing a mixture of gases containing a high proportion of helium. The pressure is gradually increased to reach the pressure at the working depth. The divers, still inside the bell, are then lowered to the working site. They leave the bell to carry out their work.

Once their work is complete, they re-enter the bell, which is then raised to the surface. Pressure is then returned to atmospheric levels and this is when the valve must be opened (only for deep-sea dives lasting several days).

The helium molecules diffuse and penetrate the material of the gaskets. The quantity is sufficient to push out the crystal during the return to  atmospheric  pressure.'

The gas, called Trimix is a mixture of Oxygen, Helium and Nitrogen. This is when the Helium gets into the watch.

A picture of the diving bell and where these divers will work.



A picture, a bad one sadly of a HEV.



For the automatic HEV like those on the SD and DSSD, the valve will open at the preset depth and pressure and no water will not go in as the gas is 'coming' out and thus preventing water from going in (in theory, the pressure inside is higher than outside and it is a spring-loaded one-way valve). However this does not matter as in most cases the HEV will only come in action inside the bell (which is dry).

The HEV design of the Omega is different (?) from the Rolex design and has to be unscrewed manually (of course the question is will the watch 'pop' if you forget).

Of course the most famous watch with the HEV are the COMEX (COMPAGNIE MARITIME D'EXPERTISE) Rolex.

Rolex ad explaining the HEV.



You can see a video of the DSSD in its natural environment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=TsE-SFNrFP0

As for why some watches have and some do not have the HEV, the choice is left to the manufacturer. Some opt to go with the HEV, while some has gone with a different case, crystal and gasket design. I believe Seiko uses special gaskets that can prevent the Helium gas from getting into the watch. Sinn I believe glues the Crystal in place or is filled with oil. Other options include screw in crystal retaining rings.

Seiko 'L' shaped gasket on their watches which are rated Helium Safe to 600M and Water Resistant to 750M.



The HEV first came about in the 60s. Rolex and Doxa collaborated to create the first HEV and featured on the Rolex Submariner/ Sea Dweller and Doxa Conquistador.

The HEV is also affectionally called the 'Fart Valve'.

Of course is the HEV a marketing gimmick or not. I do know people doing deep sea saturation dive and their input on this is that:

a. They don't really care as they use Casio G-Shock during their dive.
b. The popular method is to unscrew the crown of the watch when they are in the bell

Of course we are NOT getting into the semantics of HEV and HRV.  ;D

Offline David_cheong

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 07:58:18 PM »
Hobbit -  :thumbsup:

When you thought you know everything, something new came along..........

dc
I am almost a recovered watchaholic, but last checked shows only 70% recovered. How?

Offline siodee

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 07:54:13 AM »
Hobbit, with yr illustration explanation, I am impress  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: and this will not brought up in the next GTG, unless I discover something interesting again  :Laughing_on_floor: :Laughing_on_floor:
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore... Dream... Discover..." - Mark Twain

Offline jacky8888

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 01:43:33 PM »
Hobbit sifu...
How about ennebi fondale?.
What is their secret?...
water resistan 1000M.. without screwing in the crown.. and no HEV.. :o.
I wonder how..... ???

regards
Jacky Wong

Offline G.MAC

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 03:56:33 PM »
I believe ennebi uses the water pressure as you dive to push the crown in to achieve that level of water resistance. as you surface, the pressure reduces so the buildup of gas is also released through the crown.
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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 05:36:40 PM »
Depth rating has nothing to do with the need to have a HEV. Remember Helium can only get into the watch while the diver is in the diving bell and not in the water. So you can have a watch that is rated to 1,000 M with out the need to have a HEV. As long as the watch is not used for saturation diving, there is no real need for HEV.

And as stated by G.MAC, the pressure against the crown of the Ennebi Fondale should give it a water tight seal and achieve its rated depth (assuming that is the design of the crown). However as shown by early Omega Seamaster 300M with the Niaid crown, this system over time does comprise the water resistant rating of the watch, more so at lower depth when there is insufficient pressure against the crown.

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 05:48:49 PM »
A cross section view of the Rolex Triplock Crown, just for info.



Offline dennis.T

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:27:43 PM »
erm..if so happend i manage to work at subsea the first thing i need to do is get a DSSD ar?? ;D

Offline terrenceterrence

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 10:31:20 PM »
HEV = ur watch's fart hole.
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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Any purpose for Helium Relief Valve
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 07:03:01 AM »
erm..if so happend i manage to work at subsea the first thing i need to do is get a DSSD ar?? ;D

There are many watches with HEV across the price range. It is really up to you.  :)